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Travian
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bunsenjetson



Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: Stuart Hall

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell me I'm wrong, but ... If you've paid for a Gold account you actually gather resources more quickly, thereby giving you a significant advantage over non-paying players. That somehow doesn't seem right. All the other advantages like larger maps, queueing, easier trading etc., fair enough, but something as critical as this shouldn't be buyable, should it? Or is there a special server where only Gold members are allowed? (In which case your advantages would be neutralised by everyone else, so I'm guessing not.)
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Tred
Duracell Bunny


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 334
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, it's a major disadvantage not paying for gold, but you get some for free at the start (or at least I did, and so did a few others), so that kinda reduces the disadvantage at the start anyways.
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Steve



Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 852
Location: Sunny Wales

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, no, wrong. The Plus account does NOT include the +25% resource production, and the +10% defense and attack. It just has all the graphs and stacking buildings and other stuff.

You also start with some gold that you can use for the Plus account, or use on the +25% resource production or attack and defense bonuses.
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bunsenjetson



Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: Stuart Hall

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seem to be two levels, though: Travian Plus account and Travian Gold. You can buy gold or earn it by getting people to sign up, and this lets you get 25% advantages in resource gathering speed.

http://s2.travian.co.uk/plus.php?id=2

I'm almost certain I'm right! (but not quite.)
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Tred
Duracell Bunny


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 334
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve wrote:
No, no, wrong. The Plus account does NOT include the +25% resource production, and the +10% defense and attack. It just has all the graphs and stacking buildings and other stuff.

You also start with some gold that you can use for the Plus account, or use on the +25% resource production or attack and defense bonuses.


Steve, the specific details of what you get aren't the issue, the fact that you can pay money to get a major advantage in the game is what bunsen was referring to, and getting a bonus to resource production is quite clearly a major advantage.
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retoon



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Nottingham, England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is an advantage but you can do the same thing. you do start out with i think 30gold which you can use on getting better resources rates. to get the larger map, the aiting loop for constructions etc... are done by using your gold to get a plus account for 3 days which is 15 gold. with this you dont get the 25% resources rates or the attack and defence increases. they split it up into Features of Travian Plus and Features of Travian Gold.

This link will help you:

http://help.travian.com/index.php?type=faq&mod=580
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Tred
Duracell Bunny


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 334
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, 3 days, yeah, thats alot in this game.... the point of this whole thing isn't that it's available to everyone, it's that have such massive benefits is an unbalanced way of providing benefits within game...
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retoon



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Nottingham, England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know that if i had a job i would be buying gold because after having the plus account for christmas and seeing how much it helps i would spend gold on that. its alot but it also helps alot.

its a way for the makers to make money and there doing that in a huge way.
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bunsenjetson



Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: Stuart Hall

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tred obviously gets my point! With a game like this, where numeric advantage is everything, it's really not on to be able to buy an advantage. Basically, an average player with cash could beat a good player with none.

I suppose this is represented in all forms of gaming (a better joystick / mouse / graphics card / processor / net speed etc.) will give an advantage, but none of these apply to a game like Travian. If I can give an analogy, imagine a game of chess where you could buy an extra 4 pieces (a 25% advantage). It just doesn't feel right! I'm all for paying for things that make playing easier and support the site, but being able to buy resources in a resource-based game means you're effectively playing a different game to other people. I think it's a huge flaw.

The chess game I play (gameknot) has a free version and a paid version. I happily pay for membership because it supports the site. Bonuses include no advertising, the ability to make graphs of your stats and to be able to play in tournaments etc. - if I want to pay for pawn I need to go to another site.
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Tred
Duracell Bunny


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 334
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, thats exactly how I feel too bunsen Smile

The 2 main browser based games that I play are Hattrick and Battrick. Both have paid membership options, which include being able to bookmark players, teams and users, clubhouse features, which allows you to post a club logo and write press announcements and have a guestbook, reduced advertising, and access to more statistics within the game. Neither of them actually confer a direct advantage to the paying player over the non paying, other than in ease of use. And, beleive me, if I had the money, I'd be a happy supporter of both games.

However, out of principal, I wouldn't spend money to get direct in game advantages like the ones that gold provides within travian. Partly this is due to the nature of the game itself, where it's possible for a player to lose absolutely everything that they have within the game, and so could totally waste their money.
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retoon



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Nottingham, England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would say that if you hada good player vs a bad one that buying gold the bad person would come off worst. you do need some experiance and knowledge of the game to be able to do good. if a bad person is going to use gold to get the extra resources rate at the start of the ghame the better more experianced play is just going to keep attack them taking all of his resources. i dont feel the the 25% is that usefull once you have some big villages. at the end of the last server in my main village i had around 13000 income an hour and the only thing i need was wheat. if you want to be good at this game you have to attack everyone you can. therefore taking there resources. and just think if your attacking around 20 people every hour thats alot of resources. one of the most usefull option you can buy with gold is the one that lets you complete all your constructions, this allows you to build up last and get what you need instead of waiting a day or two.
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bunsenjetson



Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: Stuart Hall

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[what retoon just said] +/- 25% = an advantage/disadvantage!

OK, when I said a good player v a bad player, I didn't mean a noob vs an expert, I meant, say, a B vs a B+ player. Or, to put it another way, two players with equal skill but owhere one was paying would not be a fair game. If resourc gthering isn't that important, what's the point of the game?

I don't mean this to be confrontational, I genuinely want to know!!!
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Tred
Duracell Bunny


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 334
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, so say me and you both have exactly the same starting point for a village, and that village is producing 1000 of every resource. If you were to buy gold and then get the resource bonus for each resource, you would then be getting 1250 per hour, for 7 days. Thats an extra 6000 of each resource per day, and an extra 42000 of each resource in the week. When you combine that with instant building completion, which would allow you to complete a field improvement earlier, you could be getting a much more massive boost than is fair. Now say you used those extra resources to build troops... you could then go an attack me into submission, AND THERES NOTHING I COULD DO ABOUT IT. Particularly as a player using the +25% crop production can hold a much larger maximum amount of troops in a village without resorting to import...

Now obviously you can make the argument that the option to pay is there for everyone, but plain and simple there are alot of people who are unable/unwilling to pay, for whatever reason in rl, and so this gives a huge potential advantage to those who can pay, and unbalances the game.

And yes, you can make the argument that a non-gold player with good strategy can outplay a gold player with poor strategy, but in the case of equal ability, gold hands certain victory to a player.

However, this is not the same with the plus payment. Plus provides no actual direct advantages to the growth of a player, however, it provides tools that make the game easier to manage, and allow more detailed analysis. This is the sort of thing that I would be willing to pay for if I had the money available...
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retoon



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Nottingham, England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok. it is unbalanced when you put it like that, all the hardcore players will be spending alot of money on the game so they can finish first. but most of the top players are controlled by 3+ people, and i dont think thats fair tbh. the 25% is an advantage but to make up for that you just need to attack a few people an hour. there is always going to be the players that try anything to get on up on there opponents. plus is good and just help managing your villages better and i would buy into that.

anyways. the speed server sign-ups should pop up any time now with the server going live early firday morning. the signups should have been up wednesday but there have problems with something.
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Tred
Duracell Bunny


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 334
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, signups are up soon are they? I think I might join you guys on that then. I've been having a few slow connection issues with the .com homepage, while the .co.uk one has loaded quickly each time...

Anyways, let me know where you're all starting, and I'll join you up there Wink
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retoon



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Nottingham, England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok will do. i had the same problems witht he .com homepage. i stop playing a few days back.
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bunsenjetson



Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: Stuart Hall

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

retoon wrote:
the 25% is an advantage but to make up for that you just need to attack a few people an hour.

Yes, what if someone paid for gold AND attacked a few more people an hour? Still an advantage!

If everyone paid, there would be no advantage apart from individual skill.
If nobody paid, there would be no advantage apart from individual skill.
If some do and some don't, that's a flawed model.

Would you play TMN if owners of TMU had a 25% speed advantage? Me neither - and I own TMU!

Still kinda like Travian though ...
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retoon



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Nottingham, England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bunsenjetson wrote:
Would you play TMN if owners of TMU had a 25% speed advantage? Me neither - and I own TMU!


thats a silly example. can we just drop it now. yes 25% helps but thats how the game is.
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Tred
Duracell Bunny


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 334
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just been looking around a bit on the travian.co.uk forums, and apparently preregistration for the speed server will start sometime today, and the server will start proper on monday. Me and a friend will be starting on this one, and I'm assuming that alot of you people are going to be there too. Are there still plans for a Mad Laps alliance? Razz
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retoon



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Nottingham, England

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok... you can now sign up for the new x3 server. i will be starting south east. all my old allaince should be starting there. am up for making the mad allaince.
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