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c0nt3xt
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Location: Slovenia
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 Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: Half vanishing car |
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I just got a crazy idea of this half car. Is it even possible to make that kind of car in TM? If it is, can someone do it (if you have any spare time). It can be normal TM car vanishing behind drivers seat or something like that 
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Pepper
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Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 851
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| A vanish effect like that isn't possible in 3D i think... |
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DanTheMan
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 1668
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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but we have an invisible car, and ghost cars, so surely it`s possible ?!?
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Pepper
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| We need Gording to answer this i guess... i've no skills in 3D |
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HotSWAT
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 670
Location: you know what..? I really don't know..
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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i don't think it is possible...but not the gradient part.
it would have to be half car, half transparent i reckon.
which would be quite easily done for an experienced modeller (so not me  )
i still havn't learned how to name model parts in 3Ds Max
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DanTheMan
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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but isn`t the model clear, until the skin is applied, therefore, half a skin??
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THUG brixton inmate
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| anything is possible this is the internet ,we just dont have the nolige,well i know i dont,and i think i can safly say the same goes for dan |
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HotSWAT
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 670
Location: you know what..? I really don't know..
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| DanTheMan wrote: | | but isn`t the model clear, until the skin is applied, therefore, half a skin?? |
no the model is actually a sort of matte white colour. the glass you see on cars is a specifically named part of the car.
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Gording
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 61
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Half vanishing car |
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| c0nt3xt wrote: | | I just got a crazy idea of this half car. Is it even possible to make that kind of car in TM? |
From across the dark void an interesting question called..... (I blame you Swat!  )
No. It's impossible. The front of the car could be modelled fine, the rear doesn't even need to be created, but the fade....no. A part in 3D is a solid, it doesn't matter whether it's a body, a detail...and not even a a glass. They are solid 3D parts.
Ghosts. A pre-recorded ghost is faded in and out by the game engine. The fade affects the whole ghost too, the variation of the fade point would have to be variable to accomplsh a similar effect, which the game engine doesn't do. This effect is not controlled by either 3D modeling, or 2D skins either, it's how the game renders pre-recorded ghost cars.
Invisible cars. There are several ways to create invisible cars simply. Make it of one tiny polygon, face it the wrong way, or place it below the road. Make the polygon a "dummy" etc. and on and on. Making something "not there" is easy. Making it fade from solidity is difficult.
A 3D vehicle doesn't actually need a 2D skin texture to appear. It's simply painted and textured using a default grey by the game engine. Even if it did work that way (it doesn't), you'd have to then paint a 2D skin that was half there, and half not there....which is equally impossible anyway.
The only part that could accomplish a fade of a sort would be a glass car, but glass is not the ideal part of a 3D vehicle to paint a 2D skin onto. Any texture you apply becomes very faint (and translucent) and therefore the fade would be...er....faint.
The only way to accomplish something like this would be to create the very front as opaque body parts and paint them. Then gradually moving towards the middle replace the as glass, and gradually reduce it's colour to represent the fading away. While at the same time the gradual progression into glass the 3D polygons would have to become smaller and smaller. If you then delete more and more if these tiny glass and fully transparent polygons (they're still solid glass remember) the car may appear to um....disappear. The apparent problem there is obvious though, and the same thing suffered by audio, and illusionists.
The difference between perfect silence and any sound at all is obvious. The difference between even the smallest 3D part even if it's glass with no colour and a space, is as obvious as David Chilblain sitting in a glass box isn't an illusion. With such a huge and apparent problem, there's no point.
Summary : Can't be done, and the dark void of the interwibble calls me back.
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c0nt3xt
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Location: Slovenia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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gording, thank you for that explanation. I didnt understand some parts  , but summary is very clear  |
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DragonFury
Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Netherlands, Eindhoven
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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lol, the summary yeah.
but Gording, you are now talking about fading, what if the car just stopped half way? i mean, that the solid 3D part you were talking about, was just half the car? |
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Gording
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 61
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| DragonFury wrote: | | you are now talking about fading, what if the car just stopped half way? i mean, that the solid 3D part you were talking about, was just half the car? |
The endless darkness of the interwibble offers no place to hide and I am chanted forth with promises of "much prawn" and warm winter hats!
Creating a half car is no problem. Simply create half a car...or delete half a car, same result. However, this brings it's own set of 3D vehicle issues.
At this point I'd like to blame MSquires, and his "GP Slotus Exige" requests!
A vehicle's 3D has to be formed with a specific centre line for a "half car" to work reasonably well. Here's are some test pics of a low detail "Slotus" to show this in action. From the front, you see it's a half car :
Update : As Lycos UK (gone bust and taken over by Multimania) can't fix their FTP server in over a year, have now have allowed malware and spam onto their hosted websites, I have had to remove all image links. Sorry)
This is because to a game a triangle (that's a polygon in "3D speak") is one sided. It faces either in or out, not both. So the vehicle body faces outwards, but if you look in through the windows, the body on the opposite side of the car is facing the wrong way from your viewpoint....so it's not visible. Notice how looking from behind the outside of the driver's door can't be seen (Mickey Mouse hands show where this happens). So now you need new facing interior faces to obscure that problem. Things only get worse if you split a car down an axis it isn't formed around. What? Who? where? Other words starting with "W". What does that mean then?
Easy to see in action again.
Update : As Lycos UK (gone bust and taken over by Multimania) can't fix their FTP server in over a year, have now have allowed malware and spam onto their hosted websites, I have had to remove all image links. Sorry)
From the front there are polygon's extending all the way across because those polygons have no centre axis line, they are the whole width of the car. From the cutaway side (I assume that's where you're going with this now, like a cutaway demo car at a babe watch...er...a car show!) things are a truly horrible mess.
Update : As Lycos UK (gone bust and taken over by Multimania) can't fix their FTP server in over a year, have now have allowed malware and spam onto their hosted websites, I have had to remove all image links. Sorry)
It makes no sense at all now, because how I created the Lotus doesn't have every polygon mirrored. This decreases the count and helps to keep frame rates high.....sue me for trying to keep it simple!
Now while I'm here, I'll show an example of what I was detailing before. Zooming into the rear wing. Notice the solid polygons create easy to see spikes and edges.
Update : As Lycos UK (gone bust and taken over by Multimania) can't fix their FTP server in over a year, have now have allowed malware and spam onto their hosted websites, I have had to remove all image links. Sorry)
It wouldn't really matter how small the polygons were, or if they were varying darkness of glass either. They'd still be easily seen as solid 3D parts. Simple really, and the reason a solid cannot be made to look like it's fading away.
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Last edited by Gording on Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Middenrat
actual speed
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 2260
Location: Location: Location.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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non-technical musing: I saw a mirrored Mini produced as a piece of auto-art a couple of years ago. The maker said it would never catch on, though, as quite aside from production difficulties the vehicle was practically invisible in street use.
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xaniel
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xaniel
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